Ask Larry

Hi Larry, I was married for more than 10 years to my former husband and never remarried. He recently passed away. I am in my early 70s and have been drawing social security for some time. I am in the process of applying for divorced spousal survivor benefits as he made considerably more money than I did. The social security representative said I am not entitled to his full benefit because he had remarried and only his current wife is entitled to that. That information is counter to any information I can find on their website and other expert sources. Am I wrong? They refuse to tell me what his full is as well. What should I do?

Hi. What you were apparently told by the Social Security representative with whom you spoke is misleading, at best. The fact that your ex's widow is collecting benefits on your ex's account makes no difference in your eligibility for survivor benefits, nor your potential survivor benefit rate.

However, since you're collecting your own Social Security survivor benefits, you can't also be paid your ex's full amount. Instead, you'll continue to be paid your own benefits, and if your survivor rate is higher than your own benefit amount, you can be paid a partial survivor benefit equal to the difference in the two benefit rates. The result would then be a combined benefit that's equal to the full higher survivor rate.

Best, Jerry

Hi Larry

I am from india on h1b Visa.
I have 40 credits. If I move back to India will I get social security

Hi. Yes. If you meet the eligibility requirements for Social Security retirement or disability benefits, you can be paid those benefits while living in India. However, due to the non-resident alien tax withholding provision, Social Security may need to withhold 25.5% of your monthly benefits (https://www.ssa.gov/international/AlienTax_reference_2.html).

Best, Jerry

I will be at full retirement age in Dec 2023. My spouse passed at age 40. His as benefit is higher than mine. I am still working. If I wait to collect his benefit when I'm 70 will it include the DRC?

Hi. No. Surviving spouses can't earn delayed retirement credits (DRC) by waiting past their full retirement age (FRA) to claim survivor benefits. Therefore, you would not want to wait past your FRA to claim survivor benefits.

Since you're apparently insured for benefits on your own account, your best filing strategy depends on how much you'll be earning this year and your comparative survivor and retirement benefit rates. If your own retirement benefit rate at age 70 would be higher than your survivor rate, then you should probably claim survivor benefits at FRA and then switch to your own retirement benefits at age 70.

However, if your own benefit rate would be lower than your survivor rate even if you waited until age 70 to claim retirement benefits, then you would likely only want to apply for your own benefits if your earnings would allow you to be paid some retirement benefits prior to your FRA for widow's benefits. Our software (https://maximizemysocialsecurity.com/purchase) could help sort all of this out for you so that you can determine the best strategy for maximizing your benefits.

Best, Jerry

Larry,

I'm a former customer, having subscribed twice over a 3+ year period and was very happy with your planning tool

Last week, both my spouse and our disabled adult child(DAC) each received a separate letter from SSA stating; ‘We reduced the monthly benefit amount beginning Dec 2022 because of a change in the way we compute benefits when someone is entitled on more than one SSA record.'

I've tried to be concise below, so hopefully you can opine. Was there a recent change by the SSA that I've missed? I was told they review payments twice a year manually and adjust when necessary. I realize our benefit scenario is complicated but was hopeful that once the data and claimant relationships were entered into the SSA system correctly, it would be locked in and only reviewed when necessary by claims specialists with an appropriate knowledge base and experience for more complex claims.

Background;
Feb, 2021 (age 64y11m) and a PIA of 2,732+-, I filed for reduced benefits of 2,501.50.
Though already receiving SSDI, I also filed for our DAC to receive auxiliary payments from my Family Benefits and to be associated with my record. (This took 16+ months)
Sept, 2022. After the DAC app was approved, my spouse was allowed to file for child-in-care benefits. This was approved and payments received.
Dec, 2022. (age 66y04m / FRA). Spouse files for their own retirement benefits with PIA of 524.60 to be augmented by auxiliary Family Benefits from my earnings record. Child-in-care benefit payments cease.
Dec, 2022 thru March, 2023. SSA payments received.
Self. 2,878.90 (reduced). *Note: My 2023 PIA is 3,179.80 / Family 5,564.20.
Spouse. 524.60 (PIA) + 1,064.30 (aux) = 1,588.90.
DAC. 718.20 (SSDI) + 870.80 (aux) = 1,589.00.
1,589.90 is half of my 2023 PIA.
Family 5,564.20 - 3,179.80 (PIA) = 2,384.40 available for family auxiliary.
Note: when adjusted for COLA increases, my spouse's payment was within .63 and the DAC payment within $4 of your software illustration. Awesome!
April, 2023. SSA Letter new payment breakdown for spouse and DAC. (25% reduction)
a) Spouse. 524.60 (PIA) + 667.60 (aux) = 1,192.20
b) DAC. 718.20 (SSDI) + 474.40 (aux) = 1,192.60.
I've tried to back end to their total number of 1,192.20 + 1,192.60 = 2,384.80. The closest I can come is in 2021, my reduced benefits of 2,501.50 - 148.50 (medicare) = 2,353. I know that isn't correct, but the letter didn't show their work or logic to arrive at this new amount. Only stating that they changed how they computed benefits.
We've gone to our local SSA office and have asked for an appeal and reconsideration.

Thank you for considering our submission.

Kind Regards

Hi. I answer general Social Security questions submitted to the 'Ask Larry' site, but I'm not involved in the software operations and I don't have access to software customer records. You may want to resubmit your question using an online contact form available in the help menu so that your question can be answered by one of our experts with access to your customer records.

I am, however, a retired Social Security technical expert, so I can give you my analysis based on what you've stated in your question. When your wife filed for her own benefits effective December 2022, that made her what Social Security refers to as dually entitled (i.e. entitled to two different benefits). In your wife's case, the dual benefits are retirement benefits on her account and spousal benefits on your account. Apparently, your child is also dually entitled to Social Security disability (SSDI) benefits on their own account and disabled adult child (DAC) benefits on your account.

The rules for calculating benefit distributions to dually entitled beneficiaries is explained in the following section of Social Security's operations manual: https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0300615768. The bottom line is that because of their dual entitlement, your wife and child can't be paid a total monthly benefit rate in excess of their share of the difference between your PIA and the family maximum amount. You state that your PIA is 3,179.80 and your family maximum is 5,564.20, making the difference $2384.40. Split that evenly between your wife and child and you get $1192 each.

Therefore, Social Security's calculations appear to make sense to an extent, but what they apparently failed to do is combine your family maximum benefit (FMB) with your wife's FMB when she became entitled on her own account in December 2022. Assuming that your child meets the requirements for DAC benefits on your wife's account, Social Security should have solicited an application for DAC benefits for your child on your wife's account in order to establish technical entitlement on her record. That would make your child simultaneously entitled to DAC on both your account and your wife's account, which is a requirement for combining FMBs.

Once the FMBs are combined it should free up more total benefits to be payable to your wife and child, although the exact amount would depend on your wife's FMB. In any case, combining the FMBs appears to be the missing puzzle piece. What it sounds like you need to do is contact Social Security to have your child apply for technical entitlement to DAC benefits on your wife's account effective December 2022. If you're the representative payee for your child then you can file the application on your child's behalf. Once that claim is processed, Social Security should then combine the FMBs and recompute the monthly amount payable to your wife and child.

Best, Jerry

I was told by ss several times I couldn't get both ss and rr retirement. I was told you couldn't double dip. Now I find out years later that you can. I've lost out on a lot of money because the people at ss didn't give me the right answer. Can anything be done?

Hi. You can apply for Social Security benefits now, but you could only be paid retroactively for up to 6 months from the month you apply. However, if you can prove that you were dissuaded from applying sooner due to misinformation you received from a Social Security employee, then you could potentially be paid additional retroactive benefits. Information on establishing misinformation can be found in the following section of Social Security's operations manual: https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0200204008.

For the record, if you're collecting Railroad Retirement (RR) benefits and if you apply for Social Security benefits, the Railroad Retirement Board will offset your monthly Tier 1 RR benefit dollar for dollar by the amount of your monthly Social Security benefit. Therefore, you'll likely only gain by filing for Social Security benefits if your Social Security benefit rate is higher than your Tier 1 RR rate.

Best, Jerry

After my dad passed away in march, we later found out none of us are on record. And because of this my mother nor me (son) cant get survivor benefits. They gave me one option where i need a letter from her doctor saying she is unfit to handle own finances and i would be her representative payee. Is this the only way to get the benefits? Time is creeping by and after 2 months no extra monies are coming in. Our rent and other bill paying may be in jeopardy come june. This first time for me handling everything that my dad used to do. My mother is 91, invalid and iam 58 and disabled

Hi. I'm sorry for your loss. I don't know what you mean by 'on record'. Social Security isn't like an IRA where the owner of the account designates survivor beneficiaries. A person's Social Security benefits terminate with their death, and the only way that any further benefits can be paid from the deceased person's record is if someone qualifies for survivor benefits.

You don't need to be listed on anything in order to apply for Social Security survivor benefits. You and your mother can apply for survivor benefits on your father's account, and if you meet the requirements for benefits you could be paid survivor benefits.

Your mother can apply for survivor benefits directly without you acting as her representative payee. The only reason for you to apply to be representative payee for your mother is if she's incapable of applying herself, or if she is unable to manage any benefits for which she is eligible. Filing to be her representative payee in and of itself would make no difference in whether or not your mother qualifies for survivor benefits. If your mother is unable to apply in person, she can call Social Security to make an appointment to apply by phone.

The only way that you could qualify for survivor benefits is if you've been disabled since prior to age 22, in which case you may be eligible for disabled adult child (DAC) benefits (https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/handbook.04/handbook-0410.html). You can make an appointment to apply for DAC benefits by calling Social Security.

Best, Jerry

I'm Single , approaching 59 1/2yrs , receiving SSI Disability & state Medicaid. Must I withdraw funds from my Retirement account ? It's under $50k., & Is Medicaid a factor for me in the Requirement ?? I have no depends , became Disabled at 55 yrs old. Thank you

Hi. You say that you're receiving SSI Disability, but I'm not sure if by that you mean Supplemental Security Income (SSI) or Social Security disability (SSDI) benefits. Supplemental Security Income is a needs based program administered by Social Security, and you can't qualify for SSI if you have more than $2,000 in countable resources. Therefore, if you have more than $2,000 in an IRA or similar account, then you probably shouldn't be receiving SSI.

However, there is no resource limit for SSDI benefits, so if that's what your receiving then it doesn't matter how much you have in your retirement account. Nor would you be under any obligation to withdraw money from your retirement account as far as Social Security is concerned. The IRS has rules governing withdrawals from certain types of retirement accounts, but my expertise is limited to Social Security so I can't give you any advice regarding IRS regulations or Medicaid.

If you're receiving SSDI benefits, then you should be eligible for Medicare starting with your 25th month of entitlement to SSDI benefits. If you aren't receiving SSDI benefits but if you have at least 40 quarters (QC) of Social Security coverage, then you could qualify for Social Security retirement benefits as early as age 62, and for Medicare at age 65.

Best, Jerry

I cannot find an answer to my question anywhere.

I am a CA retired teacher with a CALSTRS pension (2019). CALSTRS does not pay into Social Security. After I retired, the social security earnings that I was receiving while still on the job (from my private employment many years ago) was cut by more than half through the Windfall Elimination Protocol (WEP)

My wife works in the financial industry. She is thinking of taking early retirement SS benefits. As soon as she retires, will her Social Security benefits be reduced by my WEP too?

Thanks for your answer,
John

Hi John. No. Your wife's Social Security retirement benefit amount won't be reduced because of the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP) unless she, too, receives a pension that's based on her own earnings that weren't subject to Social Security taxes. Your CALSTRS pension won't have any effect on your wife's Social Security retirement benefits.

However, if your wife qualifies for spousal benefits based on your Social Security earnings record, her unreduced spousal rate would be calculated based on 50% of your primary insurance amount (PIA). Therefore, if your PIA is reduced due to WEP then that would also mean a lower spousal benefit rate for your wife.

It sounds like your wife should strongly consider using our software (https://maximizemysocialsecurity.com/purchase) to fully compare and analyze all of her options so that she can determine her best strategy for maximizing benefits.

Best, Jerry

Best, Jerry

If my spouse starts taking the spousal benefit early, prior to her full retirement age of 66 and 10 months, then if I pass away and she converts to survivor benefit after her full retirement age, is her survivor benefit reduced from having taken the spousal benefit early? If my spouse starts taking the spousal benefit early, prior to her full retirement age of 66 and 10 months, then if I pass away and she converts to survivor benefit after her full retirement age, is her survivor benefit reduced from having taken the spousal benefit early?

Hi. No. Spousal benefit rates are calculated separately from survivor benefit rates. Any reduction for age applied to a person's spousal benefit rate does not carry over to their survivor rate. If a person is full retirement age (FRA) or older when they start drawing survivor benefits, their survivor rate isn't reduced for age even if they started drawing spousal benefits at a reduced rate. However, if a person starts drawing survivor benefits prior to their FRA, then their survivor rate is subject to a reduction for age based on their age at the time they start collecting survivor benefits.

Before deciding when to claim benefits, your spouse should strongly consider using our software (https://maximizemysocialsecurity.com/purchase) to fully compare and analyze all of her options so that she can determine her best strategy for maximizing benefits.

Best, Jerry

Hi Larry.

If Social Security requests overpayment for me being over the earnings limit (early retirement taken) and I give them back payment in full, will they screw things up and start withhold some monthly payments, or continue sending my payments without missing a beat, as soon as they recover the overpayment? I have had nothing but problems with them in the past and wonder if it is best to just let them recover the overpayment by taking my monthly payments due, instead of paying them in full. I basically don't have much faith anymore. Thanks for your advice, in advance.

Hi. I can't promise you that Social Security won't mess something up, but if you repay an overpayment in full and if you do so before Social Security has scheduled recovery of the overpayment by withholding your benefits, then you should keep drawing your benefits once the overpayment is repaid. Of course, if you're still under full retirement age (FRA) then your current year benefits could be withheld if you'll be earning over the earnings test exempt amount this year.

Best, Jerry