Ask Larry

I am a dual citizen who worked in both usa (30 yr+) and canada (10+ yrs). I am 64 years old and live in canada now. I receive USA SSDI now (10years approx) due to multiple sclerosis MS. I worked enough years to qualify for CPP but am wondering about dual country disability benefits.can a person receive SSDI and CPP Disability benefits? Would my USA SSDI be lowered if i qualified with enough work years for CPP Disability in Canada? What about a SSDI and CPP(not CPP Disability )? What is my best option to maximize benefits?

Hi. My expertise is limited to U.S. Social Security benefits, so I can't tell you any advice with regard to CPP pensions. What I can tell you is that unless you meet one of the exceptions to the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP), your U.S. Social Security disability (SSDI) benefits would be subject to a reduction when and if you claim CPP benefits. The WEP provision and it's exceptions are explained in the following Social Security publication: https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf.

The WEP can cause a person's U.S. Social Security disability or retirement benefits to be calculated using a less generous benefit computation formula if they are also collecting a pension that's based on their work and earnings that were exempt from U.S. Social Security taxes. So, assuming that your CPP pension is based on your work and earnings in Canada, then when you start collecting a CPP pension it may cause your U.S. SSDI benefits to be recalculated using the less generous computation formula. Any WEP reduction applicable to your SSDI benefits would also apply to your U.S. Social Security retirement benefit rate when your SSDI benefits automatically convert to retirement benefits when you reach your full retirement age (FRA).

However, there is a WEP guarantee provision that limits the amount of reduction that can be applied to a person's U.S. benefits to no more than roughly one-half of the amount of the non-covered pension. Therefore, even if your CPP pension would cause your U.S. benefit rate to be lowered, you should still end up with more total benefits if you claim any CPP pension for which you're eligible than you would if you don't claim those benefits.

Best, Jerry

Hi Larry. I was born in 1953 and just started collecting my SSA benefit at age 70. I married over one year ago. My spouse also just turned 70. She has been collecting on her own benefit since she was 65. Can she now receive spousal benefits on my record since I am now collecting and if they are greater than her own benefit? If so, would they be based on my FRA amount or my age 70 amount. Thank you for your insight.

Hi. Possibly, but your wife will only qualify for spousal benefits if your primary insurance amount (PIA) is more than twice as much as her PIA. A person's PIA is equal to their Social Security retirement benefit rate if they start drawing their benefits at full retirement age (FRA), inclusive of any subsequent cost of living (COLA) increases.

In other words, your wife's spousal rate would be calculated based on 50% of the amount that you'd currently be receiving if you had started drawing your benefits at FRA, and that amount would have to be higher than what her current benefit rate would be if she had started drawing her benefits at her FRA or later. If you think that your wife may qualify for spousal benefits, she can contact Social Security to file an application.

Best, Jerry

Hi Larry, and thank you for your informative column and website.

In order to avoid problems, is it better to file for social security online or in person? I plan on avoiding applying by phone.

Hi. It really shouldn't make any difference. Filing online when possible is more convenient, but if you'd be more comfortable applying in person then that's fine, too. Nor is there anything wrong with filing for benefits by phone. If you do decide to file in person or by phone, though, you should first call Social Security to make an appointment.

Best, Jerry

I accidentally applied for benefits at age 65 instead of at 66 or my FRA. When I realized my mistake, I had already received several months of benefits. On the day I turned 66, on September 6 to be exact, I sent a letter to suspend my benefits which they received in December. Therefore, I received a total of 10 months of benefits instead of 7 if they had suspended my benefits the month after I made my request. I should be resuming benefits this coming September when I turn 70. How will they calculate my new monthly benefit?

Hi. You'll retain a reduction for the months that you collected benefits prior to your full retirement age (FRA). The delayed retirement credits (DRC) you earned for suspending your benefits after FRA will then be applied to your reduced benefit amount. Each DRC will increase your benefit rate by 2/3rds of 1%.

For example, say Bob starts drawing his benefits 9 months prior to FRA. His full retirement age benefit, or primary insurance amount (PIA), was $2000, but his benefit amount is reduced by 5% to $1900 because he started drawing 9 months early. Bob then suspends his benefits from age 67 to 70. The 36 months of DRCs would increase Bob's rate by 24% (i.e. 36 x 2/3rds of 1%), which would be added to his reduced rate of $1900. That would raise Bob's benefit rate to $2356 (i.e. $1900 x 1.24).

The above example doesn't consider cost of living (COLA) increases, but you will receive credit for all COLA increases that occurred after your initial month of entitlement to benefits, including the COLAs that occurred while your benefits were suspended.

Best, Jerry

I am very very much a numbers guy and think I have uncovered a SERIOUS flaw in the social security calculator on MY SocialSecurity.com. My numbers prior to full retirement look correct, FRA looks correct, age 70 looks correct, but the numbers it is projecting for age 67, 68, 69 are flat wrong. If you go into system and key in something like age 66 and 6 months and then 67 and 1 month, it projects the same amount. It is not changing on a monthly basis. this can impact peoples decisions.

Hi. I have no way of knowing if your benefit estimates on Social Security's website are accurate, but what you should know is that if a person claims benefits between their full retirement age (FRA) and age 70, their benefit rate is initially only credited with the delayed retirement credits (DRC) they accrued through December of the year prior to the year they claim benefits (https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0300615690).

So, for example, say that a person claims benefits at age 68 in April 2023. That person's initial benefit rate would only include the DRCs they had accrued through December 2022. The DRCs they earned for January through March of 2023 couldn't be used to increase their benefit rate until effective with their benefit payment for the month of January 2024. Thus, this person's benefit rate would initially be the same regardless of whether they claimed benefits effective with January 2023, December 2023, or any month in between because they couldn't be credited with the DRCs earned in 2023 until their benefit payment for January 2024.

It sounds like you may want to strongly consider using our software (https://maximizemysocialsecurity.com/purchase) to get accurate benefit estimates and to fully compare and analyze all of your options so that you can determine your best strategy for maximizing your benefits.

Best, Jerry

Ok my husband pass last year of June 9 iam going to apply for widow dwb and iam on disability will I get a higher pay are how do they do it

Hi. I'm sorry for your loss. Since you're planning to apply for disabled widow's benefits (DWB) I assume you are between 50 and 60 years old (https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/handbook.05/handbook-0513.html).

If you're already drawing Social Security disability (SSDI) benefits, you won't qualify for additional DWB unless your own primary insurance amount (PIA) is lower than your husband's PIA. A person's PIA is equal to their Social Security retirement benefit rate if they start drawing their benefits at full retirement age (FRA), or their full SSDI benefit amount.

If you're approved for DWB, your DWB benefit amount will be calculated by subtracting your PIA from your husband's PIA and then multiplying the result by 71.5%. That amount would then be paid in addition to your own SSDI benefits. However, if your husband collected reduced Social Security retirement benefits prior to his death, then your DWB rate could be somewhat less than the full 71.5% of the difference between your PIA and your husband's PIA.

Best, Jerry

I receive a government pension and social security, once I pass will my wife be able to collect both my pension and survivor benefits FROM SOCIAL SECURITY?

Hi. I don't know whether or not your wife will be able to collect your government pension, but assuming that she qualifies for widow's benefits from Social Security then she can be paid those benefits even if she's receiving your government pension. The requirements to qualify for Social Security widow's benefits are outlined in the following section of Social Security's handbook: https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/handbook.04/handbook-0401.html.

Best, Jerry

I am 71 years old. I am currently receiving Louisiana teacher retirement and spousal social security benefits. Can I still work part-time without loosing my benefits?

Hi. At least as far as your Social Security benefits are concerned, since you are over your full retirement age you can earn any amount of money without losing your benefits. My expertise is limited to Social Security benefits, though, so I don't know if your teacher retirement has any work restrictions.

Best, Jerry

Hi Larry, I am 66 and currently drawing my social security. My wife is 62 and self employed cleaning an office, however with back issues involving shots and surgery she still cannot perform her work, She is considering claiming disability and my question is will her benefit convert to 50% of mine when she reaches 67?
Thank you,
Bill

Hi Bill. Not exactly. Your wife's Social Security disability (SSDI) benefits would never automatically convert to spousal benefits. Instead, when your wife reaches full retirement age (FRA) her SSDI benefits would automatically convert to regular Social Security retirement benefits at the same rate as her SSDI amount. Your wife would need to file a separate application for spousal benefits whenever she wants to start drawing those benefits.

For example, let's say your wife starts out drawing SSDI benefits at age 62 and then applies for spousal benefits when she reaches FRA. Her unreduced spousal rate would then be calculated by subtracting her primary insurance amount (PIA) from 50% of your PIA. A person's PIA is equal to their Social Security retirement benefit rate if they start drawing their benefits at full retirement age (FRA), or their full SSDI benefit amount. Assuming that your PIA is more than twice as much as your wife's PIA, she could then be paid her own benefit plus a partial spousal benefit that would add up to 50% of your PIA.

Your wife may want to consider using our software (https://maximizemysocialsecurity.com/purchase) to fully compare and analyze all of her various options so that she can determine her best strategy for maximizing benefits.

Best, Jerry

Hi Larry, I don't think I phrased my prior question correctly. I am currently drawing social security benefits based on my work record. I am in my 70s. My former spouse who I was married to for more than 10 years recently passed away. I never remarried. I am applying for divorced spousal survival benefits and since he maxed out social security contributions for almost 35 years his social security check is much higher than mine, I believe I am entitled to a benefit amount equal to his higher social security benefit in place of mine. Social security claims as a former spouse I am only entitled to 82% of his benefit instead of mine (which would still be higher than my current benefit). Their own website states otherwise.

Hi. I obviously don't know all of the facts involved in your case, but it sounds like what you describe being told refers to what is called a RIB-LIM computation (https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0300615320). Both widows and surviving divorced spouses can potentially be paid up to their deceased spouse's full benefit rate. But, if the deceased spouse collected reduced Social Security retirement benefits prior to their death, then the maximum benefit rate that can be paid to a qualifying widow or surviving divorced spouse is the higher of a) the deceased spouse's reduced benefit rate inclusive of any cost of living (COLA) increases that occurred after their death, or b) 82.5% of the deceased spouse's primary insurance amount (PIA). A person's PIA is equal to their Social Security retirement benefit rate if they start drawing their benefits at full retirement age (FRA).

Therefore, if your ex-spouse started collecting his Social Security retirement benefits prior to full retirement age (FRA), then your survivor rate may be limited to 82.5% of his PIA depending on at what age he started collecting benefits. However, the RIB-LIM formula applies to both widow's benefits and surviving divorced spousal benefits, so your ex's widow wouldn't be entitled to a higher survivor rate than would you.

Also, even if you are eligible for survivor benefits you won't switch from collecting your own benefits to drawing only survivor benefits. Instead, you would continue to be paid your own benefit plus a partial survivor amount that would bring your total benefit rate up to the higher survivor amount.

Best, Jerry