Ask Larry

Hello. My spouse has collected Social Security benefits since the age of 67. I do not intend to claim benefits until I reach my FRA or age 70. When I do collect, my benefit will be higher than my spouse's. We are both retired.

Am I entitled to spousal benefits at the age of 62 or older, until I collect my own benefits at 67 or 70? If I am, will my collecting spousal benefits reduce my benefits when I begin receiving these, or affect (lower) the amount of my own benefit? If I am eligible to collect a spousal benefit, I don't want any surprises when I receive my own benefits when I am older.
Thank you!

Hi. No, assuming that you were born after January 1 1954. Only people who were born prior to January 2 1954 are allowed to claim spousal benefits without also being required to claim their own benefits at the same time (https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/claiming.html).

If people who were born prior to January 2 1954 collect spousal benefits prior to claiming their own benefits, it has no adverse effect on their own Social Security retirement benefit rate.

Best, Jerry

Hi. Thank you for your quick reply. I read the cited POM sections and researched them further. I see that under the new regulation of 2015 the restricted application has been phased out for any person born after January 1, 1954. However, I also read (on various social security teacher's materials) that the restricted application remains available for widows. Is this so? Is there a different reason why this option is not available to me? Also, you're correct, it wouldn't be prudent for me to withdraw my disability claim.
Thank you so much,
Susan

Hi Susan. Widows can file a restricted application, meaning that they would then be restricting their application to widow's benefits only. Most Social Security applications are considered to be applications for ALL benefits for which a person is eligible, so the only way to apply for a single type of benefit is to restrict the application to a single benefit type. That can be done by adding a statement in the remarks section of the application.

However, restricting an application to widow's benefits only has no effect on benefits for which you've already applied. In your case, you apparently applied for Social Security disability (SSDI) benefits in the past, and under Social Security law those benefits automatically convert to regular Social Security retirement benefits when you reach full retirement age (FRA). Thus, in effect, when you applied for SSDI benefits you also applied for Social Security retirement benefits to start at FRA. Or, at least that is how the law is being interpreted by the Social Security Administration.

So, short of a successful legal challenge to the Social Security Administration's interpretation of the Social Security law (https://www.ssa.gov/apply/appeal-decision-we-made), the only way that you could undo your entitlement to Social Security retirement benefits is by withdrawing your claim for SSDI benefits, which would require you to repay all of the benefits you've collected. If you don't withdraw, then you couldn't qualify for widow's benefits unless your widow's rate is higher than the Security retirement benefit rate to which you're currently entitled. That's true even if you voluntarily suspend your retirement benefits.

Best, Jerry

need to work and I am 69 on disability but have to get car can I or how much can I make and still receive disability

Hi. The only type of disability benefits that Social Security pays after a person reaches full retirement age (FRA) are childhood disability benefits (CDB). So, if you aren't receiving benefits based on one of your parents' Social Security earnings, then there's no limit on how much you could earn without losing your Social Security benefits.

However, if you are receiving CDB benefits, then your earnings would need to be below substantial gainful activity (SGA) level in order for you to continue to qualify for benefits. The monthly SGA earnings levels in 2023 are $1470 for non-blind individuals, or $2460 for people who are blind.

If you're receiving Supplemental Security Income (SSI) benefits, then you could lose $1 of your benefits for every $2 that you earn in excess of $65 in a month. SSI is not a Social Security benefit, but is a needs based benefit that's administered by Social Security.

Best, Jerry

Hi. How can I earn delayed retirement credits until aged 70? I want to receive my widow's/survivor's benefit on my deceased husband's record ($1642.)* from now (at my FRA) until I am 70.

I reached my FRA 2 days ago, and my Disability (SSDI) Benefit from my own work record ($2494.) turned into my Retirement Benefit automatically.

I read somewhere that it is not allowed to stop or suspend Disability in order to file for another type of benefit. Why, I don't know. I'm seeking a workaround.

If I continue to receive my own Retirement Benefit ($2494.) for several months, would I then be allowed to stop it, and apply for my widow's/ survivor's benefit instead?

What actual steps should I take with the Social Security Administration (in what order, with what timing, please)?

Or would you recommend a different strategy?

*My dear husband filed for Social Security Retirement benefits on his own work record at age 70. (That was in 1998. He was born in 1928. He died on the last day of 2021.) When he died, his benefit was $1642.

Thank you so much.
Susan

Hi Susan. I'm sorry for your loss. You can voluntarily suspend your Social Security retirement benefits until age 70 in order to earn delayed retirement credits (DRC) (https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202409110), but you can't be paid widow's benefits while your own benefits are suspended (https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202409100).

The only way that you could collect widow's benefits and delay collecting your own benefits until age 70 would be to withdraw your claim for Social Security disability (SSDI) benefits. That would require you to repay all of the SSDI and Social Security retirement benefits you've collected up to now. Depending on how long you collected SSDI benefits, withdrawing your claim and repaying the benefits may not be an wise strategy.

If you do decide to suspend your retirement benefits, the earliest that you could do so is the month after the month you submit your request to Social Security. Therefore, if you request suspension of your benefits in February 2023, for example, then March 2023 is the first month your benefits could be suspended. You can make your request for suspension either orally or in writing, but I would opt for submitting a written request so that there will be a paper trail. You can use a form SSA-795 for that purpose (https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ssa-795.pdf).

Best, Jerry

I retired at 67 but a dr needed some help on their business they paid me 1200 for some computer work. Does this affect my social security rate? Will it lower it?p

Hi. Since you've apparently already reached full retirement age (FRA), being paid for work definitely won't reduce your Social Security benefit. Any earned income on which you pay Social Security taxes could potentially increase your Social Security retirement benefit rate, but only if your earnings in a year are higher than one of your previous highest 35 years of Social Security covered wage-indexed earnings.

Best, Jerry

I applied for my benefits at age 62, before I received any benefits I went to the ssa local office and canceled my benefits. I am now 63 and reapplied my first check is coming in March 2023 now I'm getting cold feet again about retiring which is supposed to be Feb 28th 2023. Since I already canceled once what are my options now if I wanted to work until the end of 2023. My earnings would be 90,000 for the year. Thank you.

Hi. If you've already withdrawn one application for Social Security retirement benefits, then you won't be allowed to do so again. If you've changed your mind about stopping work, you should notify Social Security of your change of plans. You'll need to tell them how much you expect to earn this year, and if it's more than $21,240, then they'll need to withhold $1 of your benefits for each $2 that your 2023 earnings exceed that amount. If any of your benefits end up being withheld between now and your full retirement age (FRA), Social Security will adjust your benefit rate after you reach FRA to remove the reduction for age that was applied for any months that your benefits end up being withheld due to your earnings.

Best, Jerry

Canada Pension Plan (CPP) or Registered Retirement Savings Plan(RRSPRRIF) benefits, do they reduce spousal Social Security benefit amounts in this specific scenario?

We are a married couple (more than 2 years). We are full time Canadian residents living in Ontario Canada.
Husband is USA/Canada Dual Citizen, Wife is Canadian citizen only Wife is not a USA citizen. She has never lived, worked or paid taxes in the USA.
Husband qualified for social security based entirely off Social Security credits earned from working in the USA. Husband did not use any Canada Pension Plan credits to qualify for social security therefore did not use the totalization agreement to qualify for Social Security.
Husband is 66 years old and applied for Social Security 21 months before his full retirement age and is now receiving his early retirement reduced Social Security benefit monthly.
Husband never worked in Canada, did not pay into the Canada Pension Plan (CPP) so will not receive CPP benefits; nor does he have a Registered Retirement Savings Plan in Canada (RRSP/RRIF).
Wife will be 62 years old in August 2023. She would like to apply to begin receiving spousal social security at that time.
Our understanding is she will be eligible and will receive a benefit that is about 32.7% of the husband's full retirement benefit amount.
My questions are:
1) Does the wife need to get a social security number to apply for and receive spousal Social Security benefits?
2) Will the Canadian wife's Canada Pension Plan (CPP) or Registered Retirement Savings Plan (RRSP/RIFF) benefits reduce the amount of her spousal social security benefits in any way?
3) Will the wife have to file a pay USA taxes once she starts receiving Spousal Social Security?

Cal & Marion

Hi. Social Security will need to assign your wife a Social Security number (SSN) in order to pay her spousal benefits. However, it sounds like she probably won't be able to apply for an SSN until she applies for spousal benefits. You might want to double check that with Social Security: https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10107.pdf.

No, your wife's CPP and RRSP benefits won't adversely affect her U.S. Social Security spousal benefits.

My expertise is limited to Social Security benefits, not income tax regulations. Therefore, I can't answer your third question.

Best, Jerry

Did we leave money on the ground?

I started drawing at age 68, when my wife was nearly 64. We did not claim spousal benefits. My wife continued to work, and reached full retirement age today, 30 months later. My wife's survivor benefit will exceed benefits on her own record. I estimate that had we claimed spousal benefits, they would have been reduced to 40% due to claiming before full retirement age. Her spousal benefit at FRA would have been $1,500. Benefits on her own account will be $1,750 at FRA, and she will now draw that until elegible for survivor benefits.

So, had we claimed early, her spousal benefit would have been $1,200, and over 30 months, would total $36,000. Her earned benefit of $1,750 would be reduced by about $250 (nearly 15%) due to claiming 26 months early. Am I correct in thinking the payback period for this choice is 36,000/250 or 144 months (12 years)?

Hi. Your wife didn't have an option to start drawing spousal benefits early. If she had applied for spousal benefits she would have been forced to claim her own benefits at the same time, and she could only have been paid the higher of the two benefit rates. So, since your wife's own primary insurance amount (PIA) is apparently more than 50% of your PIA, she couldn't have been paid spousal benefits no matter when she applied.

Your wife could have started drawing her own benefits at a reduced rate prior to her full retirement age (FRA), but whether or not that would have resulted in her receiving more lifetime benefits than waiting until FRA to apply depends on how long both of you end up living.

Larry strongly advises people not to base their filing decisions on the type of break-even analysis contained in your question, instead suggesting that people view Social Security as insurance against outliving their income. Therefore, I'm sure he would approve of your wife's decision to delay filing for benefits until her FRA.

Best, Jerry

Hi Larry, I bought your software a few years back to learn my best strategy for claiming Unreduced Widow's benefits (husband died at age 53 in 2006). Following your strategy I claimed at age 62 on my own work history while awaiting and growing my husband's larger claim. I reach FRA 01/2024. Two questions:

1) Three years ago, my local SS office ran the future numbers and came up with a monthly Widow PIA of $2,616 for my FRA 01/2024. Three years later I went back last week for an update (expecting a higher amount and 2022 COLA inclusion), and today's calculation is reduced $100 monthly to $2,516. When I inquired about the reduction, the clerk thought it would recalculate accurately next January when I claim. Can I expect to receive an adjusted amount higher than what I learned of in 01/2020 and of course, last week?

2) Since my husband died at age 53 and thus, missed out on contributing an additional 12 years of work will there be any higher adjustment for me due to his untimely early death?

Thank you so much for your knowledge.

Sandy

Hi Sandy. I answer questions submitted to this forum, but I don't have access to any software customer data. Therefore, I have no way of knowing how much your unreduced widow's rate should be. You may want to resubmit your question using an online contact form from the help menu so that your question can be answered by one of our experts with access to your customer data.

I can tell you that based on my experience working for Social Security, almost all of the benefit rates calculated by Social Security are accurate. But, when you apply for your widow's benefits, if the amount that you are awarded appears to be incorrect you can file an appeal.

With regard to your second question, the basic answer is yes. When a worker dies prior to age 62, the survivor benefit rate payable from their record is based on a reduced number of earnings years to account for the fact that the worker didn't have an opportunity to work more years. For example, if your husband died at age 53, then your survivor rate would be calculated based on an average of his highest 26 years of earnings instead of the 35 year average that's used to calculate Social Security retirement benefits.

Furthermore, all Social Security cost of living (COLA) increases that occur after a worker's death are added when calculating survivor rates. Plus, an alternate wage-indexed computation method can be used to calculate widow's benefits if it yields a higher benefit rate than the normal computation method.

Best, Jerry

Hi. My husband and I were married 3 years and 7 months. I am 68 and he was 64 when he signed up for SS. I have been on SSDI for 18 years and SS for 3 years In December of 2022 he applied for SS when he turned 64 and I was giving a spousal benifit of 350 dollars. We recently divorced in January exactly one year after he signed up. When I received my divorce degree, I took it straight to the ss ofice and was told I would continue to draw the spousal benifit I am receiving. The worker said that because I was already drawing SS when he signed up that I could continure to draw. When I logged on the SS website for my statement, they had taken the spousal benifit. My question is am I entitled to continue to receive this benifit or not? Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Hi. No, you can't be paid spousal benefits on the record of a spouse to whom you're divorced, and you must have been married for at least 10 years in order to qualify for divorced spousal benefits. If your already drawing spousal benefits and you divorce prior to having been married for at least 10 years, then your spousal benefits are terminated effective with the month that your divorce becomes final (https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0300202040).

The fact that you were drawing spousal benefits prior to your divorce makes no difference with regard to whether or not you can qualify for divorced spousal benefits. So, what the Social Security representative apparently told you was incorrect.

Best, Jerry